Health Insurance

Well this is the first time I've ever posted a comment so here it goes. That does seem like a chunck of change. 7k is a lot. It seems like many "Health Insurance" plans should be renamed "Pre-paid Medical" with how they are used. It makes more sense to me for people to get insurance to cover catastrophic losses or costs. Get insurance with a high deductable if you live a healthy lifestyle. Consider Health Savings Accounts which allow you to put money aside, pre-tax by the way, for medical costs. The unused money carries over from year to year so if you got insurance with a higher deductable you could start putting the difference in a HSA and build it up over time. Run the numbers. When you reach the the point where your account is equal to your deductable you could have coverage, and just put back in what you use on a year to year basis. Would that make your medical expanses tax free as opposed to the 7.5% min of total income for the deduction when you file to get back what the government steals legally? Hmmm....  Because you still have insurance, just with a higher deductable, you can still have coverage for the unforseeable catastrophic event. The current laws treat HSA's like a health IRA. If you take money out for non health related stuff you pay tax and then some but at least you have access to it to. This method would seem to encourage individual responsibility for ones own health. People would more quickly realise the true cost of unhealthy lifestyles and the bottom line may motivate them to make changes that would better them in areas besides their wallet/checkbook. It would reward those who are living healthy.

The second question is one of faith. :) Perhaps as a person becomes closer to God their life style would change the health risks that they had. From diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attack, over dosing, depression, STD's, cancer, and such to stoning, crucifiction, beheading, or starvation. Not many cases of firey furnaces or lions dens these days though maybe I'm just not hearing about them. We're already covered on all those accounts and the payout SOOOOO far out weighs the cost. LOL

The fear of the Lord adds length to life, but the years of the wicked are cut short. Pr 10:27

P.S.-I personally use the health insurance option with the highest deductible provided by my employer. Saves me $1,300 a year. My employer also annualy contributes to each employees HSA. It's employer funded so not controlled by the individual nor is it transferable. For the past 3 yrs money has rolled over. This year it looks to be about $1,800. They will contribute another 1k the first of the year bringing the total available to 2.8k. My insurance covers annual doc visits so that saves me some maintenence cost. Additionally the insurance provider contributes additional money to my HSA for living 'Tobacco Free' and taking an annuel biometric screening. Another $200 thank you. At this rate in 2 more years I would fully fund my deductible of 5k and am wishing they would give me the $1,200 as a bonus. Yeah, I'll keep dreaming.

Wow!  This is a huge topic.  I could start another one on the subject of medicare (since I will be in that category in a year and am not sure why I have to let the government pick up the bill if I already have good insurance..but that is for another discussion).  Paying about $7000 a year seems pretty average I think.  But the $1500 deductible for each person in the family sounds high.  You do not mention what that deductible is for:  emergency room, hospital stays, medicine, doctor visits, etc).  Do you have other choices within the company?  Any other plans?  When you are young and healthy it does seem to be a waste to put that much money into health insurance.  We have had health insurance for  years and years and the most important thing to me was the peace of mind and security I felt.  I did not have to hesitate to see a doctor if something was wrong.  I knew I only had to pay the co-pay (which for us was $15) for a doctor visit.  When children are young they may be sick or there may be broken bones.  When our son Jon tore his ACL and had to have surgery the hospital bill alone was over $8000 (and it was outpatient surgery!).  The surgery I had recently with a 2 night stay was  $11,000 for the hospital alone.  I had to pay $100.  The insurance company actually paid the hospital somewhere around $4700.  So they did not get what they billed.  This is just to show what the costs are like.  But, if you can be disiplined enough to save the $7000 a year then that may be another option.  I was just always afraid to be without it.  I never wanted to be in a situation where I had to contemplate whether or not I could afford seeing a doctor.  And xrays and MRIs and such are ridicuously high.   In a few years you will want to start having yearly mammograms and maybe other periodic tests and they are not cheap.  And the catastropic situation is the scariest of all.  Not only could it wipe you out but it could wipe out your whole extended family.   I am playing devil's advocate here.  Every situation is unique.  I personally would not want to be without health insurance.  But there may be better plans for you and your family.   One other thing is that if you have insurance (and have that insurance card) then all you have to do is show it and you are in.  The baby wakes up in the middle of the night with a high fever and is really sick and off you go to the emergency room with no worry about if there is enough money in savings.  We have had those experiences too!  A wild ride to the hospital when Jon was 8 months old with a severe case of croup.  He could hardly breath!  And was in the hospital for 3 days getting inhalation therapy, etc.  The croup was out of the blue, totally unexpected, and serious.  So, the bottom line is I think if you can afford it health insurance is important to have and I would prefer it over savings.   But picking the right plan with the appropriate deductible is the hardest thing to do.  And the plan may need to change as your situation changes.  I don't know if this gives you any more food for thought or  not.  We were lucky to have a good plan and it has always been worth it to me for the peace of mind.   Do you have a choice of plans to pick from?  I am sure there are argumets for using savings, too.  And granted, there needs to be some overhaul of the health care system.  Which is another topic!

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth. "For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? "And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? "And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. "But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith! "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?' "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.  - Jesus, the son of God  (Mat 6:24-33)

Could it be that we so rarely see God intervening in our lives because we already have everything taken care of?  Can we really take Jesus at his word? 

I discovered a lot of information on the internet about Christian Health Insurance Plans.  There might be something there.

Here is part of an article I found and I think it is in tune with logic and common sense as well as the Bible.  Maybe it will spark more discussion.  I would think the only thing that would bother you about insurance is if your money is going for someone's medical bills who does not take care of themselves or lead a life that does not glorify God.  To get around that then you would probably have to hook up with a christian health care plan but I don't see anything wrong with a normal health care plan.  Your money is going to provide care for a lot of other people.  Plus it is there if you need it.  So let me see if I can cut and paste the excerpt here:

(6) Should we ignore economics and just trust God?

The Bible cautions us against undue worry (Matthew 6:34) but also urges us to manage our affairs intelligently (the entire book of Proverbs).

It is certainly true that there is no perfect security in this world, and if you try too hard to achieve security, you'll neglect other, greater goods.

But foolishness does not become wisdom just because it comes out of the mouth of someone in a church setting, and God has never told us we're exempt from the laws of economics and arithmetic.

I have heard people give bad economic advice and, confronted with the likelihood that it will turn out badly, they just smile and say, "Don't trust the ways of man; trust God." That quickly becomes a universal excuse to ignore facts. It is silly and in my opinion violates Matthew 4:7 ("Do not put the Lord your God to the test").

And I have cringed while someone, giving a "testimony" in church, said she didn't have any money in her checking account, but she "trusted God" and wrote a check anyway. I wanted to stand up and say: You told a lie and committed a crime, and as far as I know, God still objects to both of those things! Writing a bad check is as wrong as any other form of fraud.

(7) Should Christians buy insurance, or should they just trust God and help their neighbors?

If you believe in helping your neighbor, you should want this to be done efficiently, and forming insurance companies is the most efficient way to do it. By forming insurance companies, people can help their neighbors in an orderly way, with advance knowledge of the expected costs, which can be spread over a large enough number of people to smooth out inequalities.

In my opinion, you do not glorify God by refusing to buy insurance. If you refuse to buy insurance, then basically, you are constantly threatening to burden your family and neighbors. They would much rather take care of you by paying their insurance premiums than by rescuing you after you fall into hardship unprepared.

I thank Douglas Downing for this insight.

End of Excerpt.

It worked!  LOL  Excerpt copied.  But I just wonder if in your paticular case you might be able to get something that does not have such a large deductible.  It is not a question so much of having health insurance as it is of the best economical solution for your situation.  But I have to say that I believe having health insurance is good stewardship (if you can afford it, of course).   You make your decision that is best for you and then don't worry about it. 

I beg to differ with this fellow's interpretation of the Bible.  He says that Matthew 6:34 warns against "undue" worry, but it actually says "do NOT worry about tomorrow."  So, if undue worry is worry about the future, I think he just made a great argument against health insurance.

Also, Matthew 4:7, "Do not put the Lord your god to the test" is a reference to Deuteronomy 6:16, which reads in NIV: "Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah."  The story of what happened at Massah is recorded in Exodus 17:1-7.  The Israelites had run out of water, and grumbled against the Lord and Moses.  Now, God had been providing for them during their entire trip from Egypt, so there was no reason for them to doubt his provision now; but doubt they did.  In other words, we "test" the Lord by not acting in faith -- in trust that he will provide for us.

If we take this fellows interpretation of Matthew 4:7 at face value, he is accusing Jesus of saying we shouldn't have faith.  Since Jesus spent much of his life calling people to faith in Himself and God, I don't think there's room for much question about the accuracy of the author's claim.

The author also makes bold unsubstantiated statements, such as: "Forming insurance companies is the most efficient way to [help people]."  Since Jesus never mentioned forming insurance companies, nor the virtue of helping people in the most efficient way possible, I think this claim is wrong.  The Jesus I know, wanted to reach people in the most personal way possible.

If we help people only via our health insurance dues, we leave out the entire class of people that Jesus reached out to the most: the poor!

I think something should also be said for the times in which we are living. Perhaps health insurance was a great thing at one point, but it's gotten completely out of hand. America has the most expensive health care in the world. Most travel insurance is good in any country...except the USA.

Now if the rise in expense is because the advanced technology (alone) requires it, maybe I'd be more understanding. But I'm afraid that Pharmaceutical companies, the US gov, and the whole heath care industry as a whole have built a self-preserving system that caters to their wallets. There is more than one way to set a fracture, fill a tooth, etc. In many countries it's (delightfully) shocking how cheap these things are. Sure, they may not be up to US standards, but you can still find adequate care that is often mostly ok. What I would like to see is less gov intervention in health care and more privatization. It would be great if you could shop around and actually HAVE the cheap options that you do in most other countries. It would force the system to adjust.

I realize I'm not providing helpful info, since we obviously we can't change the current situation. So I think we must make a decision; either shell out the cash, live in another country, or choose to invest and pray for protection. I think most Americans think comprehensive health care should be a right. I think it should be a choice. If you want to spend your life savings to remove all risk, that's your choice.

Actually, this is very helpful as it raises an important ethical question: is it okay to comply with a corrupt system?  If enough people bailed out of this unholy wedlock between healthcare corporations and the US government, the cartel would eventually collapse.

For those of us that do need medical attention in the meantime, an airline ticket plus foreign medical care is still cheaper than anything you'll find here.  For those that fear risk, I think this is an important option to examine -- of course, they may still be afraid as the fascist American healthcare empire loves to spew horror about how terrible everybody else is.  As salaam pointed out, not all healthcare is created equal, but I spent a good bit of time in the Philippines, and you get what you pay for, everywhere except in the US.  There is great medical care to be had abroad.

I don't think the writer meant that having health insurance was the only way to help people.  It is just that by paying your premiums you are also helping everyone else who is a part of the insurance group you belong to.  Your taxes are already going to help the government's uninsured childrens program.  So you are helping there too.  And, if you give at church you are helping via that route also.  It was just an argument that helps to prove that it is an efficient way for many people to have health insurance.  A big group can get more for less.  Just like a local co-op.  You probably won't find insurance mentioned anywhere in the bible as it did not exist.  A lot of things have come into being since the days of the bible.  That does not mean that they are bad.  So I don't think you have an argument for saying that because Jesus never mentioned forming insurance companies then his claim was wrong.  Jesus never mentioned blogs and the internet either.  The question is is it good stewardship to purchase health insurance.  I just don't see that faith and good christain living are mutually exclusive of purchasing health insurance.  Forming insurance companies is an efficient way to manage health issues and costs.